Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The more machines can do our job for us, the better you're going to need to become at the things machines can't do, and that's caring about people.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: That's well said, Garrett. And honestly, I think that everyone in the industry, for the most part, has access to the same solutions, the same tools, the same education, the same credentials, the differentiator who's on the bus, right? What are the resources that you've invested in, the people on your team that can actually execute it, execute it in a competent way, execute it in a thoughtful way. And I think that not only do clients, you know, recognize that, but they appreciate that that leads to a referral culture, and it leads to essentially, you know, client experience that people are comfortable with. So.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Hello, welcome to the Advisor Advocates podcast. I am Garrett Lille, and today with me is James Costable again of icg, next up in New Jersey. Good to see you, James.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I appreciate it, Garrett. Good to see you and good to talk to you. So today we brought with us Deb Peka. Deb's been with us since 2015, and she is our client concierge. And Deb has been. I'll tell you, Deb is probably one of our many, many assets that we have here at the firm. And while she doesn't work with clients directly in an advisory role, she is oftentimes not only the face and the voice of the firm. And so, you know, she'll talk to you a little bit about her role today, but for us, it's a lot about the experience. Right. I think that. And Garrett, you and I have about this over time, advisors nowadays and firms like ours, we need to be competent. Right? That's why. That's why clients hire us. Right? We need to have credentials. We need to be educated. We need to be knowledgeable. But I think there is another part of it that clients are starting to expect, and I think what they deserve and that is to be cared about. Right? In maybe a sense of the word, that sometimes the industry doesn't think about. And I can tell you Deb personifies that to a T, not only in how she acts here at icg, but as a wife, a mom, a grandma, all that kind of stuff. So we are. We're happy to have her on today to talk about, you know, what she. What she does here at the firm. And we appreciate you letting us do that, Deb.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: James is, to James's point there. I'm really curious to kind of get us started off here. He just used a phrase that clients deserve to Be cared for. And I think that's a. It's an interesting selection of words there, I suppose, because client service is something that's certainly, you know, talked about a lot by probably every firm. No, no firm is ever going to say, you, we don't care about our clients. That sort of table stakes. But when you, in your job and in your role with icg, what does caring for the client look like as opposed to just client service?
[00:02:45] Speaker C: Well, I come from a hospitality background, so I'm very passionate about client service. And to me, caring for the client is making them feel seen, making them feel.
Feel like they matter.
That's really extremely important to me, that when I'm sitting down with them and I'm chatting with them, that they feel, you know, at home, that they feel comfortable. You know, we all go into an office and we go into a doctor's office or, you know, a lawyer's office, and who feels comfortable? You know, it's kind of feel, you know, you kind of feel like you're out of place or just awkward or nervous. And I won't accept that. I want them to feel like they matter and that they're seen. And that's really all of us. That's really what we all want at the end of the day.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: So tell me a little bit about the jump from hospitality to financial services.
That's an interesting leap to make. Not that it's never been done before, but it wasn't a lot of. Yeah, I've seen a lot of people come from other sales roles to financial services. I've seen a lot of people come from, like, an engineering background or an accounting background, something that's, you know, really, you know, you're used to numbers. I don't see a ton of people make the leap from hospitality financial services.
[00:04:01] Speaker C: I was very nervous to make that leap to go to come from a hospitality background and then go to the corporate setting. I had my doubts, but ICG next and I, we go back a bit.
I used to work at the mom at the racetrack as a banquet waitress. Just to give you a little bit of my background for over 20 years.
And that is how I got to meet the managing partners and the staff here.
Every summer, ICGNext hosts a client appreciation event at the racetrack, and I must have worked about 10 of those events as a banquet waitress, and I loved it. So then one summer, one of the managing partners, he came up to me and said, you know, we have a job opening, and I was wondering if you'd be interested in interviewing for the position.
And my first instinct was, I said, I have to be honest. I don't know anything about computers. I don't know anything about technology.
And I have to tell you that he had said something to me that stayed with me all these years later. He said, what we're looking for, we can't teach. Everything else can be taught.
And I just loved that. And I said, okay, I'm going to give this a try. And. And I've enjoyed it.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Just to give you, you know, an idea, too, Garrett. And I'm happy that Deb brought this up. So over the years that we had been doing that event for our clients and their families, the reality is, you know, Deb had been there in many different. Many different senses of the word. Right. So helping to, you know, set the event up, being a contact for us. And so not only did we get to know her, even though it was only once a year for a few hours, but every time, you know, when we would get there, we'd be like, oh, my goodness, great to see you, Deb. Actually, we met her sister, we met her mother, but all of whom worked there with her. And what's interesting is even some of our clients at that point, you know, got to kind of know her, albeit just that one time per year. And I think, you know, what we were looking for at the time, and we were going through some branding and marketing changes, you know, at the firm around that time, and we're like, wow, Deb really, again, know, personifies what we're looking for in terms of who our clients are going to deal with when they come to our office or when they call into the office. And that had nothing to do with her background. It had nothing to do with her credentials. It had everything to do with her personality and who we found her to be as a person. And so that's why, right off the bat, you know, we found her to be a right fit for that role. And, yeah, there was a lot of other stuff that we were able to train her on. Right. Whether it was our CRM or Excel or what have you. But for that particular role, we said, hey, those are ancillary items. The most important thing that we want is someone who is going to actually be able to connect with clients and to her point earlier, make them feel at home, make them feel comfortable, make them feel that, you know, hey, this is a place that. That they can.
That. That they can be comfortable.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, to. To your point there, this could be said, I'm sure, about a lot of different Types of traits. But when you think about, you know, financial advisor or the. The staff with the financial services firm or, you know, the. The entire picture there.
There's a lot of things that you can teach. You can't teach care. You can't teach that ability to. To care for the client, to empathize with the client, to truly care about the client. And not. Not necessarily in the a.
In this industry. I don't even mean for it to sound like such a derogatory thing, because it is. It's. It's something you have to do. But a lot of times you see in this industry, the service aspect of it is for. It's to make the client feel good for the firm's benefit. And you can tell that, right? But there's a. It feels much different when you can tell that the service and the care for the client is genuine and. And truly for the client's benefit, not just for the benefit of the firm.
[00:08:02] Speaker C: They could always tell. I think people can always tell if you're faking it, if you're not being genuine. I think that the partners had a vision and they put a lot of thought into how they wanted their clients to feel from the very moment they walked into the office.
And as the person to be the first impression and the person to set the tone on behalf of the firm, I'm very honored to be that person. And, you know, coming from my. My hospitality background, I. It was very natural for me to come out from behind my desk when a client comes in for a meeting.
And I enjoy just sitting and chatting with them and getting to know, just getting a little glimpse into their life and making sure that, you know, they feel comfortable. Because really, at the end of the day, in my opinion, there's only three things that matter, and that's your health, your family, and your finance.
So, you know, what we're doing here matters, and it matters to the clients, and it matters to us.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: It sounds like you've taken on a bigger role in planning client events. How did that evolve over time?
[00:09:18] Speaker C: Yeah, so over the years, I think with a lot of positions in life, your role expands, and mine did over time. I've been with the firm for almost 11 years, and so now it encompasses marketing, which I really enjoy. I actually took that in college. So I also do client gifting, which is another way the firm shows their clients that we're thinking of them for any special occasions or any special milestones that may come up in the client's lifetime. And I also.
I plan all the client Events, and there are several throughout the years. Throughout the year.
And that's just another way that the firm shows their appreciation and shows that we value and we appreciate that the clients place their trust and confidence in us.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: James, I've gotten to know ICG very well and gotten to know you very well over the last year or so. And I know the culture of your, of your firm. It's special. And I don't say that, you know, I don't want that to sound disingenuous. I'm just trying to buddy you up because you're on the podcast. You know what I mean? I've said this before, but I do, I really enjoy working with firms that truly do get it, whatever that it is. And one of the things about ICG is your culture. I mean, everything from having you on podcasts to conversations you and I have had one on one to the what's Next podcast that we do to. Even when, when the, the I'll get a call from your office that I need to fill out a form for my tax information or whatever it is like there is, even when I no show a podcast because my kid's sick.
I have never had an, an experience or a conversation with anyone at your firm that wasn't handled with just, just graciousness. It just, just in your, everybody in your, in your firm is, has such a genuine care and empathy for others and a grace about them and the way they handle people.
That's something. Again, you can't teach that, but what can you?
It's one thing to have that desire to create that culture, and to some extent, you can't teach it, but at the same time, having that desire doesn't guarantee that it's going to happen. There are still steps that you have to take to execute that vision. So I don't think that's even a question, but just unpack what I'm saying there in some way. You know what I'm trying to say, right? You know what I'm trying to say. How do I, how do you do that? How do you execute it?
[00:11:54] Speaker B: I, I know what you're trying to say. And, and Garrett, I think you were the one that said some, Somewhere in your comments, there's a question, and I've
[00:12:00] Speaker A: learned that that's it.
Most of my questions are just, Most of my questions are monologues that you have to decipher what I really mean.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: But listen, I, I, I, at the end of the day for us, number one, it was a, it's a huge work in progress. Right. So it's decades and decades and decades of the people of this firm, some of whom who have been here from the very beginning, some of whom who came midway, some of whom have just come on board. But it's about getting the right people on the bus, right? I had a manager early in my career who used to talk about that is like, you have to have the right people on your bus if you're intending to get where you want to go. And I think one of the things that the people that we've invited onto the bus have always had in common is that we do operate with this graciousness, right. And we recognize that our clients, you know, them being here is a privilege for us. Right? There's a tremendous amount of choice in this industry. And choosing an advisory firm, choosing an advisor is a choice that they have to make. They shouldn't take it lightly. And so it's on us to prove to them why they should be here. And by the way, we're not the only great firm out there. There are many, many, many great firms out there. Right? We are just one of many. But in our quest to kind of do our small part for the clients that we do have the Lux having here, it's about, again, putting the pieces in place. And so when I think about the expansion of Deb's role, it was only natural, right. When she started to interact with our clients on the phone, when she started to interact with them in our lobby, you started to see how her role could expand into, okay, how, how in, in what other ways can we demonstrate to our clients that we care about them, that we're thinking about them and that we're on this journey with them. And so, you know, small things. Again, we're not the only firms that, that do this, but, you know, making sure that we address their birthdays, making sure that we address milestones and anniversaries or college graduations for their kids, all of these little things that, sure, it's on our minds because we do consider them kind of part of, of this family that we have here in our office. And the events that we do know, Deb curates them perfectly. Right. And to a t. Couple of them are larger scale, designed to be multi generational, invite the children and the grandchildren, etc. Many of them are designed to be a bit smaller and. Right. Geared towards. We had an amazing candle event last month, you know, geared towards Women's Month.
And then some of them are geared to be more educational. Right. So. So throughout Covid, we started doing These educational webinars, you know, that we got a lot of traction with. And Deb and one of the other members in the firm kind of set that up. So I. I see Deb's progression in our company was very natural for her.
And. And I think that she is a prime example of someone not only on our bus, but in the role that she is great at. Right. And a role that she enjoys doing.
And I think that's a lot of the key to the limited success that we've had is just putting the right people in the roles that stoop them.
[00:15:16] Speaker C: You know, Garrett, to your point, I really wanted to stress, because I think this is important.
As honored as I am to be that first impression and to set the standard for client service, I work with an extraordinary group of people.
They have the same work ethic, they have the same high standards, and they all give 110% of themselves.
I'm just so honored to be part of that team. And I really feel that collectively, it's just the team that makes ICGNext so unique.
Yeah.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: And you know, it is rare. I agree with James Stamet, though. You're not the only firm out there. And I don't mean to make it sound like just because you're on the show, you're the only solution for anybody. That being said, it is rare that I come across a team with that strong of the culture in the sense that it really is everyone working together in a complimentary way for the greater good. I don't think of it. I've talked to anyone at your firm.
I don't mean to make this as a universal statement, but everybody has.
You don't seem like the type of firm that says, okay, we're going to go pick somebody for this one role that we need as much as it is. You get people on the bus and then you kind of learn how to best use them. It's almost like a reverse engineering in a way. It's not like you write the job description and then go try to find the person to fill it. You seem to find the right person and then write the job description around that.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think I could have written the job description for most of the people at our firm in the way that they're currently doing it. When I think of some of the key people that are here right now, I think of. And listen, I'm going to leave a lot of names out right now, but I think of Dev. I certainly think of Sandy Laspina, our coo. I think of Two of our most senior client service managers, Kelly Ballard and Jessica Bonavento, there, there is not a, you know, a description that you can give that will actually quantify not only what they do on a day to day basis, but the impact that they have on the client's lives. And I've often said that what goes on behind the scenes at a lot of financial firms, I don't even know that clients really get a glimpse of how much support we as the advisors have that allows us to actually do what we do for them. And we do try to bring that to the, to the forefront and help clients understand, to Deb's point, huge team effort. You know, so many cogs in this wheel that make it, that make it go around.
But I think you're right, Garrett. I think that over time, right, things evolve, the world evolves and people's roles evolve, but it always comes down to, yeah, finding people that have that similar work ethic.
I have a famous saying with some of my employees, which is, listen, work is work, right? At the end of the day, most of us, we all have to work, right? And I would argue that none of us necessarily want to work, right? But we all have to. And so when we're here, we, we should make the best of it, right? We should be in a role that we actually enjoy and that we come to work enthused. There's going to be really bad days, really good days. And I think having an environment of people that you enjoy being around, both professionally and personally, and I think being in a role that you enjoy what you do, again, not notwithstanding those bad or frustrating days, isn't is important.
And for me, you know, I do see a lot of our people that look at this more as a career. They look at it as part of their identity, part of their life, and I think they're proud to do what they do. And so, you know, from our perspective, again, you know, being competent advisors, caring about the work that you're doing, but also having a degree of pride in the work that you're putting out, I think those are, you know, traits that we look for regardless of the role. Doesn't matter what role you're serving here, you know, we look for that. And I think that's part of the reason. Reason why, although our firm has grown fairly exponentially over the past couple of years, to be quite frank with you, we've passed up on a lot of growth, right, because it just wasn't a right fit for us. Whether it was, you know, the individual or, or the geography or whatever it may be. So our growth has definitely been a little bit more deliberate. It works for us.
And I, I think that's important, right? Just making sure that you have real clear provisions on what that growth should look like.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: One of the things that I'll be just as blunt as I can be. I am not good at all at the things that bed sounds like she's really good at. That is not. Not that I don't care for people, but I'm terrible at knowing how I can't come up with the perfect gift idea and the perfect way to express my, you know, gratitude or feelings towards someone. That's something that, you know, God bless my ex wife, she was the best at that. She was always great at coming up with gift ideas and I was terrible at it. But from an advisor standp point, that was something I always had to. I'm good with numbers. I'm good at the. The X's and O's of the business, but that type of thing was something I always had to put two hours of effort into thinking of something that someone like Deb could think of in 30 seconds and how to. How to execute that. And there were some, you know, firms that I worked with that my clients, you could tell they just really appreciated and loved the experience that they got to have being a part of that firm as opposed to maybe the firm that I was at before. You can see the uptick in client satisfaction with that type of a culture.
So the question that I was eventually going to get to there is maybe for either one of you, how have you been able to see Dev's role correlate to client satisfaction, client retention, overall client experience? Is there a way you can quantify that to be able to say, okay, before Deb, we were, you know, at 50% client satisfaction. Now we're at 90. Ever how you would say it. But is there a way to quantify how you've seen that shift over time as a result of the effort that Deb puts in?
[00:21:17] Speaker B: I'll give you an answer first and then I'll see what, you know, what Deb thinks. But, you know, I don't know that you can quantify it in actual numbers. I mean, listen, as a firm, we've polled our client satisfaction. You know, we obviously see our retention numbers, and we're proud of the fact that those are pretty high.
My answer is a much, much less qualitative answer. And that is I very, very often. And again, I don't know how often, but it feels like very Often I get from clients in our meetings. James. Oh, by the way, Deb is wonderful. Right? Or Jess is wonderful or Kelly is wonderful. So I'm constantly reporting back to my team after I come out of a meeting and oh, hey, I just wanted to let you know, so and so really appreciated that call that you gave them or that gift that you sent them or that card that you sent them. So for me, it's just a feeling. Feeling, which is a lot of how this firm is run actually, that, that I get that our people are doing the right thing and that it's being recognized by clients.
And again, I just think that's a part of the culture. And perfect example is, you know, we had a new client, a new prospective client into the firm yesterday.
You know, obviously to remain nameless, they, they were bringing their daughter with them, three year old daughter. And so, you know, Deb had ready for her a small coloring book and we were just like, the clients were like, that's so thoughtful, you know, in doing that. But again, it's not sure we want to put on a good impression for our prospect. Right. They're considering our firm. We want to put our best foot forward.
But I don't really think that was Deb's intention. Right. The intention was just a, hey, you know, she's a grandma. She was, she was a mom. She's a mom. So it's like, hey, a three year old is going to maybe need something to keep her attention while their parents are talking about an important topic. So I think that really just does go to speak to the level of caring and the level of thoughtfulness that, you know, Deb puts into her role.
[00:23:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's the perfect example. Right. I would never in a million years think of that. And as soon as I hear it, it's brilliant. I mean, it's like, yes, why would I not think that that's the most brilliant idea I've ever heard, but I would never think of it on my own. And you can tell James is a, is a advisor advocates veteran because he answered that question absolutely perfectly. Even though I asked it horribly. He knew exactly where I was trying to go with it. So sometimes I get to just edit my questions out entirely and just let the final recording will just be him talking. But Barry, that was the perfect answer because that's, I wasn't really looking for the quantifiable. It is the, it's the thing you can't describe. Right. But you know it when you see it kind of deal.
[00:23:50] Speaker C: And you know, Garrett I think another thing that might quantify it, if you will, is when we do the client surveys, when the clients will hit the button to have to give a response on how they feel about the firm. And they always, almost always mention the team.
They don't just say James or Dan or any of the advisors. They almost always say, and the team is wonderful to work with. And I think that is what speaks volume.
And you could, and that's. You could tell that that's what matters.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I did an episode on this several, maybe over a year, year and a half ago. But the point of that episode was that as technology continues to evolve, I think the human element's going to start to become the key differentiator in financial services. You're not winning clients because you have the best financial planning software anymore or that you have the best portfolio management process or even because you have Alphabet soup beside your advisors names over time. Right. Everybody has that. Those are not key differentiators.
And saying we put the client first is not a key differentiator either. Because everybody says that. Right. The ability to actually execute that, the ability to actually create that type of culture is I think already. And I think it's already a key differentiator. And I think if you fast forward 10, 15, 20 years, it may be the ultimate differentiator in success versus failure as a firm. Because the more machines can do our job for us, the better you're going to need to become at the things machines can't do. And that's caring about people.
[00:25:35] Speaker B: That's well said, Garrett. And honestly, I think that's what's interesting about that is, well, well, before we met, this is going back decades. Right. I think the reality is, you know, at the firm, we've constantly talked about the fact that, let's face it, everyone in the industry, for the most part, has access to the same solutions, the same tools, the same education, the same credentials. The differentiator goes back to what I was talking about earlier. Who's on the bus, right? What are the resources that you've invested in, the people on your team that can actually execute it, execute it in a competent way, execute it in a thoughtful way. And I think that not only do clients recognize that, but they appreciate that that leads to a referral culture and it leads to essentially, you know, a client experience that people are comfortable with. So I agree there.
[00:26:25] Speaker A: And it's true from on both sides of the coin. Also, on the one hand, from a firm looking at adding clients, it's somewhat commoditized in the sense that we all have the access to the same solutions, but also for a firm trying to attract advisor talent, I've learned that that's very commoditized as well. There are certain things that are table stakes in the. In on that side of the industry.
You're not going to be successful. I don't care how good your culture is. If you're paying 30% payouts to independent advisors, you're going to get crushed in the recruiting world. Right. There's certain things you have to have. But at the same time, I think the key differentiator that advisors are looking for the most, that's very hard to quantify, is that culture.
You can talk about having a good culture, but actually having it is.
I think that's one of the most important things advisors are looking for. I know for a fact that an advisor would take an 85% payout with the right firm in the right culture before they would take an 88% payout with the wrong one. That last 3% is just not that important to offset the cultural impact. So being able to create that is a big thing on the advisor side as well.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: I think some of our most successful advisors that have joined our firm over time have looked and said, okay, can this particular firm offer us the platform and the structure that we need to serve our clients? Well, that's a given, by the way. And payout is included in that. Tools, solutions, you name it, investment, product, all that stuff.
But are they also able to offer me that abstract, you know, thing that I'm looking for, whether that's camaraderie or collaboration or, you know, all of those things that you just, you know, you really can't quantify. And I think is a big part of having advisors feel comfortable in the environment that they come into. And again, you know, in our little neck of the woods and our little niche that we operate in, I've heard from a lot of advisors that, you know, they're not getting that from their broker dealer, they're not getting that from their osj, and that's what's leading them to look at other firms. And of course, you know, oftentimes, you know, we like to come into the mix where it makes sense for us
[00:28:32] Speaker A: to have a conversation for advisors out there who are interested in learning more about icg. If you'd like to have a conversation with James and the rest of the folks, his team there, I would be happy to introduce you. If you want to send me an email to Garrett advisoradvocates.com or give me a call 919-561-2436. James and I are both totally fine as well. If you want to circumvent me out of the process and call James directly, you're welcome to reach out to him and his team. James, how can advisors reach out to you if they would like to learn a little bit more about ICG?
[00:29:01] Speaker B: Yeah we always welcome any phone call so 732-359-3838 or all of our information is on our website icgnext.com awesome.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Well Deb it was an absolute pleasure having you on here. Really appreciate you taking some time out this morning. It was awesome hearing hearing your story and your journey and I just love I I really do genuinely enjoy learning more and more about the the ICG story and the the team as well because it's really cool the more I know about you guys the the cooler the story is. So appreciate you sharing.
[00:29:30] Speaker C: Thank you. Appreciate it.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Appreciate it.
[00:29:32] Speaker A: Thank you all. Have a.
Sam.
